Sean, Chief Impact Officer at United Way: Leading Innovation & Community Change

0:02Hey everyone, I'm Scott Cheevers, president of Fortell AI and you're at the Fortell podcast. And so today I am so honored to be welcoming Shawn from the United Way, where we're going to just kind of talk about some of his innovation and his leadership. You know, kind of what brought him to the United Way in Tarrant County. So Shawn, so nice to see you. >> Glad to be here. Thanks Scott. You know, it's kind of cool to get asked to join a podcast, so I'm excited to be here with you. >> Yeah, so you know, part of this podcast is just kind of learning from, you know, thoughtful innovative leaders. So you know, I would love to just kind of hear from you like what brought you into kind of this work? Like, you know, kind of what's your why, if you will? >> Yeah, I mean, honestly for me, my career honestly begins with the United Way. I was fortunate that in grad school I was finishing up my my master's in social work and as a part of that I had to have field practicum

1:05hours and my second and final field practicum was with the United Way of Greater Houston. And so it was my entry into real community transformation work. It really exposed me to working with agencies who were on the ground trying to make amazing change. And so getting to see that firsthand, getting to experience that even as a as a student, was incredibly eye-opening to the power of community work, but it became my first job out of grad school and and what I walked away with was saying and believing, and I still believe this to to this day, that United Way is one of these organizations that has the greatest potential and purpose for really transforming communities. And so fast forward all these years later, I had an amazing an amazing opportunity to join United Way of Tarrant County as our chief impact officer and get to be a part of a great team uh that leads alongside of our community. Really to make change for

2:09people and move our people into and into hope, into their their next level of thriving. And so, it's really uh it's been a a privilege to get to to lead this work all these years later. >> That's amazing. Like the the uh progress that you've you've made in the United Way system. You know, like just full transparency, I grew up in in Colorado and my knowledge of United Way was it was a ad during a football game. And so, you know, like but what I found is that it was more about volunteerism, it was more about connecting communities. Um and then, you know, as I moved on in my career, I think one of the things that I've really appreciated about United Way in general is like really the thoughtful work that they do around kind of ALICE data and collecting that and being able to like story tell around that. So, you know, maybe can you share a little bit more about like what you guys do in your specific United Way? Like how does that

3:13impact you? Like and maybe just share a little bit more about like what what you know of your like community and ALICE data? What what's that telling you? >> Yeah, I would I would be remiss to say to not mention. We are a 106-year-old organization here in Tarrant County. We've been around for more than a century. And at the core of everything we are we are purposed to do, it is about solving problems with community, alongside of community, for community. And those problems and challenges look like a bunch of things. You know, this year's problem and challenge might look vastly different than next year's, but as a United Way, our purpose really stems around how do we come along and help solve those problems? Whether that's through resources, a lot of people know us, you know, as we originated as a community chest. We'd raise money in community and pass it through. And often times, we don't think about the programs that we stand up to

4:16serve individuals. We don't think often times about agencies and organizations who we we work with that helps advance advance solutions for the individuals who make up our county, who make up our our community. So, at its core, you know, we are a problem-solving agency that every year, every year that we exist, we get to reinvent who we are. We get to double down on that that kind of mission imperative. So, for us, what we have seen is that everybody has need. You know, every walk of life, but the need that seems to persist and is really really prevalent for us right now is we see what we call ALICE families really showing up. And ALICE is an acronym. It's not a one specific person. ALICE is an acronym that means asset limited income constrained, but employed. So, it's a long way of really saying people who are working really hard to make ends meet and are just struggling to make those

5:20ends meet. Our county is about a 31 31 32% ALICE population of just working hard to make it make it all connect and still needs a little help, still needs a door open. And that's not always about that's not always about somebody needing financial resources necessarily. It might mean an opportunity resource. So, that is a skill development resource, it also might mean that by connecting them to workforce development or or basic needs assistance or or even a credentialing program might open up the door that helps them take that next step into financial security, move into financial stability, move into economic mobility. And so that's what we organize ourselves around and all of our programs, all of our services in some way shape or form are touching of families needs around education, health, and financial security so that we build a more resilient community.

6:25>> That's amazing. I appreciate you kind of like sharing like what that is and what you guys are learning through that. And yeah, so you know, me and you, we met at conference. And so, you know, one of the things that I was really struck by and we've had, you know, several times where we've been able to connect and just really talk through what we're seeing in the the different communities, what we're hearing on the the ground floor. And like one of the things that really struck me is just like you are like truly an innovative leader. And I want to just kind of like hear more about like what, you know, as you think about that, like what made you innovative leader? Like what are some of the things that, you know, in your kind of work trajectory, like where did that kind of originate? >> Well, I appreciate that. It's very kind of you. So, I will I will take the flowers as very kind, but I've been I've just personally, this is just Shawn

7:27personally. I've been really fortunate that I've had great leaders who I've been connected to from the time I was a young person. I had two amazing mentors and the power of mentorship just as a young person growing up who thought differently about life, who really pushed an entrepreneurial spirit, who believed that Sean little Sean, you know, could grow up to do amazing things. So, it started with just, you know, this kind of cultivated belief inside of myself that I could be a change maker uh from a young age. So, my two mentors um from when I was a kid really seeded that I that idea. And then I've I've been blessed. I've been fortunate that in all of my stops along the way, I truly have worked with amazing forward-thinking leaders. I've been fortunate to be on leadership teams and work for national organizations that are trying to do big things. And what I've learned in working for all of these organizations alongside of all of these

8:32great CEOs is innovation requires risk. It requires taking big swings, and it requires being okay that everything isn't always going to work out. But it's worth the swing. It's worth the the chance and to just think bigger, right? You can't always play it so safe. And so, sometimes it's just the mindset was being able to have a mindset that was built around it's okay that some things won't work out. It is okay to just try, right? To have an idea that you just want to see if it works. And I think that is what for me personally has been my own personal journey. But inside of the work, what got what gets birthed out of that is just being curious about what could help solve problems. Innovation at its core is just about finding unique ways to solve problems, right? So, being curious about solutions and having ideas and talking with community. Like I think that part really matters to say, I have

9:37an idea, could it work? And so I always boil innovation down and I'll I'll I'll hush after this. I always boil it down to it really is about creative ideas to solve really difficult problems and it starts with an internal belief and you bring people along the journey to help you solve that problem. And that's what it looks like. It's a that spirit. And so I think that's how I got there. I think that is this kind of a you know, seed that I dealt with when I was little that grew with some amazing mentorship and and support over time and I've been given a lot of opportunities to just try stuff. >> I love that and yeah, I mean I think about this a lot, you know, around innovation. Innovation takes time, it takes risk and you know, is a challenge. And so like often as leaders who are innovative, sometimes it is really lonely because you are ahead of people and they're like, that doesn't make sense. And you're like, no, trust me, it it makes sense and will make sense.

10:40You know, like I think about so like where my spouse works, they work with youth and young adults that are in, you know, high school, middle school and they have this board around like failures. And what they do is they encourage people to write their failures up there because then it normalizes it's okay to take risks, it's okay to fail. You know, so you know, as as you talked about that a little bit, what's, you know, thinking about your career and like your trajectory, what's like a hard lesson that you learned where you're like, hey, it didn't go that way, but we had to pivot and, you know, kind of what was that like? What did you learn and, you know, kind of what's the resilience behind that? >> I think most of the stuff that I've learned that has been the hardest winds up the people journey of it, you know, and that so much of what we want to do, we believe everybody is either ready, they get it, they want it, they can do it.

11:45And we're just not all at the same place at the same time. So And so sometimes that requires us to slow down. Sometimes that we're moving so fast that we're we are we're leaving some folks behind. So I really think probably my if I'm really boiling it down to where I've learned the most, it is just where I feel like I've uh I've either misstepped in being a leader of people or or when we don't we don't slow down just enough to bring everybody along the right way. And I think that sometimes puts us in a position where >> [snorts] >> the work doesn't, you know, we don't all hit that same aha moment at the same time. Now, some of it is just human nature, too. You know, people are people. Some people aren't ready, some people don't want it, some people can't do it. So I that's probably the most stark lesson because I'm a little bit harder on myself earlier in my career because, you know, you want to be likable, you want

12:47everybody to to like you, you want everybody to, you know, believe in the work that that you're doing. So that that part probably sticks with me as more of the the the times where I've missed the mark as a people leader because if you don't get the people part right, in one way or another, if you don't get that right, the work isn't really going to grow. Like it's not going to go. And so that's probably where I'd say, I know that's not as concrete and as beautiful we packaged an answer, but it is the truth. It is people move the work and getting that right matters, you know, 10 out of 10 times. >> Oh, yeah. Like I think that was one of the hardest lessons I'd learned cuz like my pace is not everyone's pace and I think early in my career, like I expected people to be at my pace and I'm like, "Hey, let's just, you know, let's let's move forward." And then like there was like this kind of like aha moment I had

13:49where I was like, "Okay, this deadline that we're setting like has nothing to do with our funding or, you know, like big, you know, ideas that we have." And I was like, "We're just creating kind of sometimes arbitrary uh deadlines and like then we're creating this more stressful culture than we actually need, you know, at times. So, I always like use this phrase of like, 'What's a realistic deadline that you can give us to, you know, to me?' Because then it I gives the autonomy back to that person versus like I'm telling them, 'Like here's here's the deadline and, you know, if you didn't meet it, then we have a problem, you know?' So." >> You know, so I think you'll appreciate you would appreciate this having led. Now, I didn't come up with this, but it it res- it has resonated with me about leadership. Like as leaders, particularly when you're on a a senior team or an executive team, as a group and as a as a leader, you generally have been wrestling with a problem for so

14:53long ahead of the organization because you're not divulging to your team, you're actually working it through as the actual leader who's accountable for it or responsible for it, you're working with your senior team. And the part that, you know, hit me like a ton of bricks is by the time it gets to the people who have some responsibility for driving it forward or having to sit with it, you have already made your peace and grieved, whether it's the decision, the you know, the change, whatever it is, you've already had to come to grips with it because you as a group have been wrestling with it for so long, and now you're on to the next thing. But, the people who are just now receiving it, they're at the beginning of their grief journey with it, or they're processing, or having to understand. And so, it often times can create a little bit of a of a disconnect if you don't slow down to connect the dots for the people who have to carry it now, or if you or it can create this perception of callous

15:58[snorts] and cold. And when it's like, "No, I promise. I I heard about it already. I just now I'm on to our next solution or opportunity or challenge that we have to solve for." So, that part when I think about people, you know, it becomes really important to think about how we how we humanize their experiences, our staff, as our teams, uh for where they might pick up a decision or an opportunity or a next step. >> Yeah, often I've seen that like with leaders of like, "Hey, I've given you the information. We have a month to make this change. Get on board." You know, like and and you know, that leader maybe has had 6 months of like runway. And so, that's often what I see as as a real challenge for leaders is to then put themselves back in that situation where you're like, it's like we're making decision all over again, you know? >> Yeah. Now, think about that in the context of innovation though, right? Like, the speed and pace at which

17:01innovation can [clears throat] happen, should happen. Now, you're accelerating a timeline to either jump on an opportunity right now, or to catch something on on its new uh you know, new wave. And you as an organization or as a a group of leaders of an organization are also trying to accelerate your own learning, your own pace to be ready to put yourselves in a position to implement. So, when you think about the exact same thing we said with just your everyday challenges as an organization, now put the innovation cycle into that where you're now trying to bring an organization through that at a pace that generally requires moving faster, that generally requires having a level of comfort that as leaders it's easier to have than the staff who are responsible, the teams who are responsible, who need a little bit more of the support, the information because they're responsible for implementing. >> Yeah, definitely. And you talked you

18:04know, a little bit about innovation. I just want to go a little further. So, like you know, spend a couple minutes with me like dreaming. So, like as you think about your community as you know, you think about your organization, like what is your like kind of big dream for your community if we look at you know, you know, Tarrant County in in 5 years from now. What does that look like? You know, what what does innovation look like for you? >> I I keep using this example because it's probably the most real example that I've made. I think about as a nonprofit sector, generally, you know, it is hard work, right? You are doing work for communities that are in need, that are incredibly vulnerable, but oftentimes we're doing it from a place of, you know, very limited resources. We're relying on the good nature of others to invest in us, to give their dollars, whether they're corporate or individuals to support work to help people, right? And so, when I think about nonprofits, oftentimes we are not

19:07as fast to the table to be able to make, you know, innovation a number one priority because we got to take care of keeping the lights on, keeping people fed, making sure staff is well taken care of. So, for me, when I'm thinking about the dream, I'm thinking about a well-resourced nonprofit ecosystem that is able to dream themselves and to have capacity to um not only help with the day-to-day basic needs like take care of the ground game, but to move into the into the future. So, I often use the example of as nonprofits we're driving cars, but we need to be building spaceships. We have the parts of a car, but we're trying and needing to build a spaceship because we got to get to the moon. And so, for me, that is where when I say what is the dream, it is how do we get enough resources into the hands of these agencies who are doing really critical work to help our help our communities? How do we build enough collaboration that is public and private, that pulls together government

20:12and higher ed and nonprofits and corporation? How do we build this ecosystem in a way that puts more resources into agencies doing creative work? And really, how do we put enough resources into the space to just allow agencies to think about creativity and think about innovation, not their day-to-day like dollars for just innovative thinking, right? To try new solutions. How do we build the muscle of our community to have that mindset of it's okay to try some stuff and fail, it's not going to shutter your doors as an agency. So, when I think about my dream for Tarrant County, it is this nonprofit innovation ecosystem or ecosystem of nonprofit innovation where agencies can come in, they can try, they can experiment, they can learn, and that's what we are really trying to build at United Way. We're really trying to build that space, and we're working very intentionally to create that. Not just through how agencies learn, but what they get to do, how they get to apply technologies and new technologies

21:15and emerging technologies into their work because that's often times a gap >> [snorts] >> for our organizations. And then how do we attract new thought leaders into the work to think about our sector because on the other end of all of this are people who are in need and if we can solve through innovation, through more resources, through unique problem solving, there are people on the other end of this who are going to benefit and it's going to rise the tide of our actual community. You're going to have less people who are who are on the lower end of the Alice thresh- threshold or the poverty threshold. You're going to see more people who are engaged in the economy. You're going to see more people who are civically engaged because they buy into they have the things they need to buy into community. So, it is a maybe a little bit of a of a big dream, but I believe, you know, if we can make real steps to to have this space and this place where our nonprofits can

22:19really grow um their ability to serve through technology, through innovation, through research and data, and really make positive change. >> Amazing. Let's do it. You know, like that's that's the the thought process is like how do we make that happen? >> So, can I pivot? Can I pivot and ask you a question because we met, you were at the front of of an auditorium presenting on your organization and major things that you all do through technology. What spurred it for you though? Like, you know, this innovative, creative mindset that said and and what I love about when I talked to you, Scott, you're not some just tech brain. You think about community, you think about people's change. So, for you, what was it that connected those dots that help you think about community in that way and >> [snorts] >> innovation in that way? >> Yeah, I know. I appreciate you asking. I I think for me it was I got tired of saying no and that we can't do that. Like

23:22So, like example is like we did uh coordinated entry in King County. So, I was overseeing that program. And like literally this was like um let's see, I just had my first kid. So, like 14, 15 years ago. So, and we were just starting coordinated entry, you know, in communities. And so, I would literally take phone calls at 9:00 p.m. because I was like, "I don't want to miss this opportunity to connect this person with this housing resource." And I kept getting frustrated because I was like, "There has to be better ways for us to do this that doesn't burn me out, doesn't burn our staff out, and also gets the needs met." And so, like often I'm thinking about like you know, how do we do things that are a benefit for the client, a benefit for staff, and meet our contract obligations? Because like, you know, when I was a case manager, 50% of my time was like meeting with clients, which I loved, I enjoyed, and 50% of my

24:26time was spent showing that I met with that client. And I was like, "No, like you're you're paying us to meet the needs of our community, but so much of my time had to be spent showing that I was meeting that need, being accountable." And I totally believe in that, but how is how is it that we could find new ways to approach our work? And so, that was often, you know, I find that it's it's often kind of lonely at the innovation space because it's like at times you're like this can you're looking at things in different layers and different like situations and everyone typically looks at it from their lane and so I think innovative leader leaders this may be my lane right now but I want to look at all four lanes you know or you live in in Texas so there's like 20 lanes you know so but I think you know those are some of the things that like I often if I was doing this work I was thinking about how does this connect with the health care

25:30system how does this connect with social security system how does this connect you know and so the great thing about this this job I would say is like now I get to take the the ideas that I've been like thinking about for decades and I like have a team that can actually put that into motion and so that's been really cool >> So that is probably a perfect example that brings together what I referenced about the people part that you got to get right and that you want to support but also with this like mindset you know space so Scott you started your own thing like you said you have this burning you know curiosity inside of you to solve a problem which is again at the core of innovation and then you went started your thing it is like how do we create then really cultivate that spirit inside of the people who are inside of our organizations who you know everybody can't go start their own thing and nor will everybody go start their own thing

26:33but how do we get exactly what you just said that curiosity that burn that fire to solve problems and then you know make help people who are in our organizations feel okay trying that and let them have a space of a sandbox to play and try ideas at every level of the organization, but also that cuts across issue areas, right? These are not just problems in one particular space. So, when I think about my dream is like, how do I bottle up Scott's curiosity, his energy, his fire to solve problems for community and spread that amongst our amongst our our Tarrant County our nonprofit ecosystem. >> Yeah, it's it's the same as like and I think this is something I learned through my my different leadership like opportunities is like what I was actually dreaming of doing is being like an entrepreneur, being somebody who is able to take ideas, dreams, and vision and and put it together, but do it for

27:39the benefit of community, you know? So, like it's kind of like bringing together a group of entrepreneur people for nonprofits, you know, like how do we, you know, do things like that? So, I think that's kind of, you know, where I'm really drawn is how to like continue to spark that curiosity in people and to like help them have the knowledge base that like, you know, I often when we're in this field, we get like you're thrown into the fire. You're, you know, like why? You know, why do we have to throw people in the fire? Can't we prepare them for the fire, you know? >> Yeah. One of the things you asked me before we started, you know, you're talking about the work that we do at United Way and and and to this point to this question what we launched earlier this year was the United Way Institute. And at its heart, the the problems of the institute are about research and data because research and data should drive how you

28:41think about developing solutions to your program. You got to have a strong foundation of community level research data that helps you understand. So, research and data, but then capacity building. How are we building our talent, developing our leaders, helping them think through problem-solving, and providing resources, and investment into that. And then the other leg of that is innovation. Really creating new innovative solutions. And so, when I think about what all that looks like put together, as you were talking, you were talking about um the the get people into a room and help them it makes me think like we have an opportunity to do real innovation capacity building for leaders. So, typically in nonprofits when you're talking about capacity building, you're talking about, you know, how do we help you understand balance sheets and P&Ls and, you know, what social media training look like. And you know, it's very it can be very tactical in a lot of ways and important. I'm not diminishing the importance of

29:44that. But how do we create a space for a leader to build capacity of leaders around innovation. To really curate that that mindset and give them not only tools and resources around that. But again, so much of innovation is just the space to think creatively and have ideas and be around the energy of creativity and other creative minds. So, I do think as we're building and growing the work of the institute, one of the things you'll see us do is create, you know, lab spaces for our leaders to come and just be creative thinkers. I will I will tell you for me, and I don't even mean to ramble, but probably one of the things that I have struggled with in life is to consistently have a creative outlet. I am a terrible artist, but I love to paint. The paintings behind me are not mine. >> Okay, I was going to ask that next. >> They're not I didn't do them myself, but you know, but the the idea of just

30:46sitting in front of a blank canvas and just wherever your mind goes, wherever the paintbrush goes, that's what I really, you know, hope for our leaders because they're so head down and trying to make sure that needs are met, but when do they just get the space to say, I got a big bold idea, I just got to you know, I just need to play with it a little bit. Need to toy, need to understand. So, >> I love that. I love that. Yeah, no, and even this conversation I think for me one of the huge benefits of doing this is like it also unlocks my own creativity. So, like as you're talking I'm like, oh yeah, and this, you know. So, I I really appreciate it. So, I'm going to ask you this final question. And you were talking about this a little bit earlier, so I'm going to go backwards a little bit. You talked about your mentorship, you know, those those two individuals who really mentored you. So, I want you to go back to that moment. And so, what would you tell little Sean? Now, now that you're, you know, years

31:50removed from that. Like if you were to go back and talk to like your younger self, what would you tell yourself in that moment? So, I was a I was a kid who grew up at the Boys and Girls Club. I say grew up at the Boys and Girls Club. I didn't live there, but every summer when my mom would take me to the Boys and Girls Clubs for summer program and every now and again for after school program. And the most vivid memory that I have, not just of the fun with kids, not just some of the trouble we got into, and not even just of my mentor, my mentor Dave Porter, my mentor Rodney Walker, amazing men who I love dearly to this day, who literally show up for me to this day. It's not just of them, but it's a you know, I was on the steps of uh waiting for my mom to come pick me up and I was sitting next to a young one of my friends, a young kid about the same age. And I thought we lived the same life. Like I went home, I had a food on the

32:52table, lights, um you know, running water, all those things. I had a good life as a kid. And I thought my friend had the exact same life. And I came to find out later they did not. They did not have the same access to food. They did not have the same access to access to clothing and and, you know, and and safe environment, if I'm being quite quite honest. So, when I think about what were those pivotal moments that helped me get into this work, it's not that just going to grad school and having a field placement, it was recognizing that mission and belief in people and helping people started really really early. So, if I were telling myself anything back then, it is that the belief in humanity and serving people will give you a quality of life that money can't. And when I got to college, I wanted to go into being a business, you know,

33:55businessman or a sports agent and do all those things, make all of this money. And really honestly, every single thing I've ever wanted to do in life has centered around, how do I just help people? And so, I would have told myself younger to believe in the power of helping people and pursue that with a relentless passion. Go after those things, because if you can do that, the rest of it comes, whether it's money, whether it's fulfillment, whether it's opportunity. I've gotten to do some amazing work. I've gotten to go to some amazing p- places because of, you know, being involved in these spaces. So, I think it it it is that. I know it's it might be a little cheesy, but it is it is there is purpose, there is power in, you know, just believing in the in helping people. So, that would probably be my advice to my younger self as opposed to, you know, chase the money. >> Absolutely. I love that. And I'm excited to hear,

34:59you know, 20 years what your yourself would tell yourself now, you know, as well. So, I I just really appreciate this conversation and your thoughtfulness around this. So, thanks so much for joining me and look forward to just kind of continuing stream with you. >> Yeah, thanks, Scott. I appreciate you having me.