How AI Can Support Rural Communities Without Replacing Human Connection | Sara Brown, SCHRA & Rob Symes

0:02Hello and welcome to the Fortell podcast. I'm Rob SS and today I'm joined with Sarah Brown from SC H. That's a mouthful. Um, so Sarah, just tell us about just a little bit about you. We'd love to know a bit about you. How did you get into community action and then we'll transition to now the agency you're running? >> Yeah. So, um, I'm Sarah Brown. Um, I'm executive director here at South Central Human Resource Agency or both a mouthful. Um uh I graduated college and kind of got into um the nonprofit type governmental um grant writing world. Um spent 16 years in more of an infrastructure um county city-based type

0:47um agency and transitioned about 10 years ago to the community action agency. I I I'll I won't lie and say that I did it entirely for, you know, high moral moral high ground reasons. I actually live about 10 minutes from this location. And I knew I knew one thing one thing that I was familiar with was, you know, government contracts and how to how to manage grant applications. And so I knew I was comfortable with that. Um but, you know, it that kind of came into how I how I got here. But once I got here, I I found found a love for this kind of um helping people, you know, just kind of that while we did

1:29that higher level, um we didn't get into the nitty-gritty and just be able to address people's, you know, specific needs, emergent situations, and it's just really kind of become a hard thing for me now. >> Yeah. And because because I've come down to see you at literally where you are now, right? So, >> right. Well, it's quite an interesting thing because in because people think of Tennessee, like if you're English like me, you probably only know Nashville, Knoxville, that kind of thing, right? But just give people so people haven't been to your area because you've got a bunch of different offices. It's big

2:00location you cover. So, just give people a sense on that. >> Yeah. So, we cover 13 counties, 6,500 square miles, um, that are under our jurisdiction, 13 counties. Um, I think there's now 35 cities and 36 there. One one unincorporated a few years ago. So um but it's a lot of a lot of ground to cover very rural we have some urban pockets just you know but but mostly very rural um you know our our communities are um you know largely low lowincome individuals we have you know not largely but I mean there's a lot of populations that that we can address and then you know the biggest thing I think is um you know the rural we're kind of

2:43on the back end of technology ology and access to internet services. I mean, we're just now getting to that. And so, what we're finding, I think, as as a population in this area is a we've got an older population. Rural areas just tend that. Um, and then a lot of them are not super tech-savvy. So, um, the state has really kind of invested some dollars into kind of that generation to make sure that they're, you know, they're going to be able to keep up with all the changes. So, you know, it's a it's a beautiful I think you would agree that our area it's beautiful down here. It's there's great people um wonderful

3:20people, kind people, people that want to help each other. Um but there are there there are challenges. Housing is a challenge. Um there's not like a ton of available housing. Rental houses are, you know, we're more of a hey, you had the family farm for forever, you know, or people live, you know, we just don't have a lot of of things. And as we've seen, you know, Nashville kind of um borders our our upper rim and, you know, we've seen those things kind of start to creep down into our communities. Nashville, Murphy'sboro, um those areas are creeping in. So housing prices are skyrocketing. You know, where people

3:56used to could rent a home for $450, $500 a month, they're looking at $1,200 to $1,400. And you know, on a fixed income, that's very difficult. So, we've got a lot of specific challenges to our area, but I would say I would say personally that South Central Tennessee is the best best best part of of Tennessee. >> Well, well, I know that because I met your team and they all told me that too, as well as wanting to talk about romantic. So, uh that might be a different podcast, different >> So, tell me what the kind of programs you guys do because obviously we've talked a lot about a few of them, but

4:31just what what are all the programs? We kind of kind of we we talk about sometimes when we do presentations, we call ourselves kind of a cradle to grave and that sounds a little morbid, but I mean we start with our Head Start programs, we we work with infants from zero to four um preK age children. We're getting them ready for school. We're inter, you know, doing those interventionventions that they really need to get prepared to go to school. So that's one we're really really very proud of. our Head Start locations in across our 13 counties. We do um again helping the the family in the middle um

5:06where we've got services through our low energy low income energy assistance program um um workforce type programming. We are involved with justice involved individuals. We have our community corrections program and drug court um programs which again our our issues in our communities but we want to make sure that those individuals aren't you know you have a bad day you you know you make bad cho a few bad choices and then you know you're kind of stigmatized for life. We want to kind of make sure that they've got pathways to to come out on the other side of that. Um we have uh workforce type programs for in

5:48individuals over 55. I mean with the CEST program, Americanore, foster grandparent programs, all of those are, you know, targeted toward, you know, our aging population, but not everybody wants to retire. I mean, you know, in when I was young, everybody's like, "Oh, you get to 60 and you you get to automatically retire." Well, that's not really the case anymore. And, you know, epiphany for us Americans, Social Security is not going to sustain us for all our lives. Even though we were taught, you know, there was a whole generation, I wasn't taught that obviously, but a whole generation before us, a lot of them just thought, hey, I'm

6:22investing in this and I'm going to be able to retire and that's going to be able to pay for things. And unfortunately, it that's not the case. And so those individuals that are now, you know, sometimes raising grandchildren, you know, they're retirement age, they don't really have a skill set. They they kind of can't work factory. Their bodies won't let them do specific jobs. So they need different skill sets. So, our aging uh those programs with for 55 and older give them skill sets to go back into the job um realm in different ways. So, they're not working in a factory anymore. They can't physically do that, but now we've got

6:57some computer skills that we need or we're working with, you know, kids in schools and we're able to mentor and that type of stuff. um that then we move from that to um we've got a couple that are you know programs that are specifically for um in at risk adults. Um you know we've got our um uh community rep pay program which will those individuals that kind of can't handle uh social their social security and VA dispersements. you know, they're they're they don't really understand how to manage money and so we're able to be their fiduciary and make sure that, you know, they have money at the end of the

7:34month and so when they have an emergency, um they're able to handle that. And then we have um in that same vein, we have a homemaker program that helps with individuals that are homebound and they can't clean their homes or they can't they can't they're at risk. They've you know, somebody is taking advantage of them. We have one individual and it breaks my heart every time I think about it, but we've got a little lady that's um visually impaired and blind and she um literally we have to go the day she gets her check because she will be taken advantage of. You know, she'll go to get an Uber or a taxi

8:07in her community and someone she thinks she's giving them a 20 and she gave him a $100 bill and people just are taking it. So we are like on the day that she gets her check our little worker goes out and is like you know her little protector and she's like we have to take care of her because she's independent enough that she wants to not because we've like let us be your fiduci let let no she wants to handle her own things and I'm proud of that but we we got to protect those people those individuals like that. Um, and then moving from that, uh, we have our meals on wheels program, which I also love that. I mean,

8:40I love to think that, you know, we have congregate meals where individuals can go and there are, you know, 60 and older can go and eat together, which is a great thing. And then we also have our meals that go to the individual homes. And that is to me, I think for us, you know, again, as a southern girl, we kind of grew up with our mimosas and everybody around us. Yeah. >> Yeah. And grits. Yes. Yes. I know they're growing on you. Um but we uh definitely um grew up around our our grandparents and we were there. And so that need for someone else to come in and kind of do these kind of services was not as great. But as I've grown up,

9:23I see that, you know, I'm kind of unique in that I live five minutes or two two three minutes from my parents. most of my peers that I went to high school and college with, they moved to different places. And so we find that we have a lot of um elderly um individuals, senior population that are they're now kind of isolated. They live in these rural communities. They live out 10, 15 miles from town. Um they don't have their nearest neighbor isn't right next door. It's, you know, a few miles down the road. And so those individuals delivering that meal are sometimes the only contact that they have all day

10:01long. So I mean just to kind of again that kind of cradle to the grave where we're helping all the whole gamut but really at the heart of it we just want people to be successful wherever they are. So if it's if you're homebound and that's where we need to be, you know, make you successful, make make you be as independent and stay in that house as long that's our goal. If it's a child in in Head Start early that has some, you know, developmental delays or whatever, we're going to get the the services that you need to be successful. So, we're trying to every level where that's that's kind of the goal.

10:35>> Yeah. And tell me about like how's the job because you've obviously worked in this field for a long time, but how's the job changed in the last few years? What are the differences? What are the new challenges or the funding streams? What what's happened? I think there's a there's a we're seeing a uniqueness again to our rural areas. I think probably people who live in urban areas see these things and it's so it's not as you know when I say these things somebody might say well that's happens in every community but it doesn't we didn't see it in our rural communities. One of the things is the housing

11:05challenges, you know, as Nashville, Murersboro, Huntsville, as those kind of come around our our little rural areas, you know, individuals that right now, I think we on average if we see somebody that's on a fixed income on average for social security, I mean, it's around $8 to $900. Yeah. >> I mean, rent is >> you're looking at $1,000 easy if you're not in some kind of subsidized housing. And so, how do people do that? um you know and my I think of my own grandmother who got about $700 a month and 400 of that went to prescriptions, >> right? >> And so thankfully she at that time owned her own home and you know so she didn't

11:49have rent a rent expense but I mean she still was like you know my mim was putting $10 away for every all 19 grandchildren for Christmas so she could put it in an envelope for us. So, it's the challenges that these these families have. Again, housing is a huge part of that. Um, just the ruralness of our communities, challenges of of good food, um, healthy foods. um in in the US, you know, we I think it's becoming more and more we're more and more aware of like if we I I I say this when I first worked with nutrition um a few years ago, I I was the director actually of that specific program, the Mills on Wheels program.

12:33And I was in Walmart one day and I was behind this older gentleman and he reminded me of my own grandfather after he was widowed. And so he's in the line and he's got a big we call them it's like a big thing of baloney. Do you know what baloney is? Do y'all have baloney? Y'all probably it's probably bologagna or >> baloney there. But uh so he had this big we call him a chub. It's like a big long thing of baloney. So he had this big thing of baloney and uh and cheese and crackers, you know, just kind of basically little Debbies, little snack cakes. And I'm sitting there looking at them and I'm like, we wonder why our our

13:11individuals are in nursing homes or whatever. They're eating so poorly. But that's I can see my own grandfather. Well, I'm not going to turn on the oven just for me or I'm not going to cook something just for me. And so it's easier just to go to those snack foods. So healthy foods, access to healthy foods is so important, especially as we see our population get older. And that's kind of the thing that is the the biggest challenge is as this generation is retiring and and you know I can't even think the statistic off the top of my head but I mean like the the number of individuals kind of turning that 60

13:43to 65 70 in Tennessee and around the nation is just booming and there's a lag in in in the difference in between. So, we're gonna we're going to face huge challenges. That's kind of coming real quick is the challenges of how do we support best support those individuals and get them access to >> things that make them healthy that keep them in their in their homes. Isolation. I read a statistic with um um Meals on Wheels, the Meals on Wheels um website a few years ago and it just blew my mind. They said the isolation is almost a it can do as much harm to the body as like smoking a pack a day cigarettes which is

14:26insane but you think that interaction and it's just the body you're you're depressed you're sad you know all that kind of works on your and so it's just it to me we have to figure out our you know how to best support those individuals. Yeah, for sure. Because we're I think I told you this when I last, but we're doing this at the moment with seniors and aging populations where we're using, you know, the voice AI stuff to to talk to them or check in with them on a more regular basis because the case managers in the place we're at don't have the time anyway. And then you can feed that back. But I kind

14:58of sometimes I go, go, yes, I get why obviously there's a need for that and why they're selling, but you know, and the AI sounds quite realistic, so it's probably better than nothing. But then I sometimes think, well really actually what they just need is a person to talk to. And so even though obviously we're selling it, I'm slightly torn by that. >> It is it's a tough it is a tough thing because you when I've I mean I like to my kind of management style is I want to be able to do anything that I ask my staff to do. So I I want to take a day and I want to you know I want to work in a head start. I want to do deliver

15:33meals. And the reaction when you go in and you feel like they just want you to stay and talk and you're like, I've got 10 other people I've got to get meals to. Well, let me tell you about this. Let me tell you, you know, and you can feel that connection that they just desperately just kind of want that human thing. And that's one of the things that, >> you know, we've had to cut, you know, our as we've talked about our own agency kind of while how we got connected was the thought process is that, you know, we get kind of flat funding. We've gotten pretty much the same funding for a lot of our programming for the last 10

16:07years that I've been here. I mean, we've had es and flows during COVID. We got a little a little additional dollars, but right now we're trying to manage with what we have. And we're, you know, it's not that I'm I'm I definitely am not sitting, you know, hey, we need more money, although we could we could always use other, you know, additional dollars, but the point is how do we be how do we make best use of the dollars that we have? And that's kind of where we, you and I got together is because, you know, with this funding, we used to have a um as part of our community service block grant, we had a kind of not AI, but a

16:40version, hey, I call I'll call up. We've got these individuals we we call once a week and just kind of do some check-ins. And again, it was a great service, but it was one of those that definitely when we when it came time to, okay, what do we have time for in the day? It fell to the bottom. And so, you know, we're not, as we look to hire, you know, everything's getting more expensive. We're, you know, when we hire a staff person, it's more expensive. We have to pay higher wages. Um, we want qualified. We want, you know, good qualified individuals. And so, you have to often pay a little bit more for that. Benefits

17:17are more, you know, insurance, all the things that go along with that. Employee. I mean until you're an employer you don't realize that you know okay my salary is this but almost double that is what is needed to to actually support that individual. They may take home that salary but the other parts that have to be included to make sure that you can cover everything that's required for that individual. Um and so oftentimes what we find is you know it's just harder to pay more with that stagnant kind of funding. Um so we've got to come become more creative. We got to figure out ways that we can use

17:52technology to maybe not have to have that individual another individual to do that service or we can free up time for that individual that we already have and still not lose those things not lose the calling Miss Jones even if even if we say okay we're going to call her once a week actually and then we have AI followup >> you know that kind and so that way you again I kind of agree with you I want that human connection But at the same time, like let's check in. >> Yeah, I know. >> But it's interesting because when I came down to see you and Beth and you guys were explaining that to me because I you

18:29know, we didn't know all the maths on that and you know the the employment stuff as well. But I mean because when you saw the voice, I always thought your reaction was quite funny. Like just just talk people through that when you saw that in Orlando for the first time. >> Oh gosh, I was just like I mean I was amazed. I was literally amazed because my I think most people initially think of Siri, hello, how was your or you know the alert like turn left at you know so it's very robotic and so when I saw the presentation I honestly it took me a minute to be like is that actually a >> is that actually not a person

19:03>> and um then I was like okay it's not and and the your presenter and I I'm sorry I can't remember >> Scott Schubert. Yeah >> Scott >> Scott Schubert. Yeah. >> Okay. So, Scott, he he even changed up his tone and his, you know, inflection and sounded like more of a teenager or a young person. He kind of got, you know, a raid or a little bit different, you know. So, it it um it reacted appropriately and it and and honestly, my my favorite part of it was was the empathy. >> Yeah. because you know I've I've sat on the phone with an AOT and I mean and I want to cuss it out you know as bless your heart you know in the southern way

19:48but at the same time you're just like goodness this is so frustrating but it didn't you know when he said something I'm you know this I'm so mad at this I'm so sorry you're going through that it just felt so human that it made me not as like again where you're thinking oh it's some robot it it felt like somebody actually cared. Um, and so that's the tone that we want to have, you know, that's the when and and the best part I think about this is it's 24-hour access to to these things. Um, emergencies don't happen from 8 to 4:30. Unfortunately, you know, things that and sometimes it's not even Yes, I can't fix

20:28the the the electric company is closed after this time. I'm not necessarily going to be fixing anything, but just the fact that you can talk to somebody, you know, have a conversation and just get vent, hey, I'm going through this and I can't, you know, whatever. And you get that they get the opportunity to just get it off their chest. Sometimes that's all they need. You know, that's all those individuals need. I've often times had calls where they get through to me and, you know, again, all they wanted was somebody to hear them. And so that access be it on Monday at 9:00 or Saturday night at midnight,

21:06>> you know, we want them to have that access and be able to get that call in and feel like they got what they needed to get out and actually get real solutions. That's again that's a favorite and I don't know that we are quite there on what we're trying to do but we're going to get that's my hope is that we get there is that kind of okay we can't help you with that but let me send you to another resource in our community that can because we do have lots of connected agencies that if we're talking about challenge for rural areas and I think just in general we're so there's tons of services but we're asking people who are on a fixed

21:44income and gas is almost let's say let me look at the gas station over there I think it's 389 this morning um we're asking them to use those very limited resources to drive around and again we're not like a little town I mean like we're not sitting on top of each other our service is a few minute few miles out of town you know another service they might need might not even be in our community might be somewhere else and so as we move we've got to figure out ways that we can make technology connect these. We can't all be right at a city center. >> Yeah. >> But and I see services. It's a challenge. It is a challenge. Services

22:24are going online where individuals can, you know, apply for things online. They don't have to necessarily sit come to my office and sit in front of me. Those are challenges, but they're also unique opportunities where we can serve you anytime. We don't have to have a person sitting in a chair, but we can serve you anytime. You can get your stuff in when it's convenient for you. Um, you can get that off your chest or you can get connected to something else when it's convenient for you instead of having to drive on a Monday morning, drive to 14 different places to get the services that you need. >> For sure. Because actually, because you

22:57mentioned this earlier, but I wanted to touch on it more. So, you talked about employment, right? And obviously that's one of the big problems, you know, in rural communities, difficult to get employers. And you had someone um there was a big employer in your town, right, that left a few years ago, I think. So like tell me about that because there are obviously young people growing up in that area as well. that's not just seniors like what are the things that you guys are able to do in terms of helping some folks you know find employment or where where do they go for that >> right so you know we have it is it it

23:25can be a challenge because the I think the younger generation we are definitely again leaning on that technology aspect here's access to this they want to do things online they don't want to come in and sit with me they don't even I mean if they're my ch like my children, they don't even want to talk to me. Like, text me and I might answer you or I might open that up. So, you know, the access to those services being in a in a way that we can, you know, work on your time, not on when it's convenient, you know, when 8 to 4:30. Um, because that is a ch that is a huge challenge if someone's looking for

24:04a job. I mean, I remember as a I was a young girl when when this big employer in our community I mean it was our major employer in our community and I remember because a a large part of the employment pool there was you know 40s to to 50. I mean they were you know been there 20 30 years at that point. So, I remember sitting in in community college when I graduated high school. Um, and I had two or three, four ladies that were in their 50s that had worked at this plant for all their in and they're back in college and they're trying to figure out where do I go from here? I'm not ready to retire. I'm not I

24:39can't I can't retire. So, where do I go? And, you know, it was it was inspiring to see them kind of reinvent themselves. Some of them have went went on, you know, went back to school for various different things. But I mean, the ability to be able to do that, but in that transition period when those things happen, it's amazing. That's kind of what fills me is like we're that support system to keep them level so they're not dropping off while they're trying to get back to where they need to be. So, but those kinds of things when you're in a community of 40,000 people and this employer employs 4,000 people of that

25:1740,000 people, that's a huge that's a huge thing. >> Yeah. And so, um, it's a it's we have to figure out how to how to connect our rural communities to job opportunities without having to sometime I mean, we can't always drive a 100 miles to go to work. I mean, you know, my dad drove always drove really far out of town to to work. Um, you know, he would have an hour long drive and I remember when he finally retired, he was like, "Thank God I don't have to drive anymore." You know, but that's that's how it is. is I mean you know co really gave us the opportunity to do things like this. I mean you're in Spain and I'm in

25:54Tennessee and you know it's kind of amazing that we can do these things now but you know there was a time when you thought I have to physically be in this office. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well well you're still offering me some office space, right? >> I am absolutely yours whenever you come whenever you're ready. >> If you offer it right I'm gonna take you up. >> Yeah. I know. I mean yeah. Come on. Um, but yes, listen, thanks so much as usual. Really appreciate you coming on the podcast. Um, and I'm gonna see you in Nashville in a in a few weeks. >> All right, that's great. >> Cool. >> Can't wait. >> Let me

26:29How do I stop recording? Cool.