Community Action in Idaho | A Conversation with Joe Borich, SEICAA, with Scott Schubert and Rob Symes

0:00Hey everyone, welcome to the Fortell podcast. I'm Rob SS, the co-founder of Forell and I'm joined by Scott Schubert. >> Hi everyone. Um, yeah, Scott Schubert with uh Forell CEO and Joe, we're so excited to have you. So, do you want to do just like a brief introduction? >> You bet. You bet. No problem. Uh, my name is Joe Boritch. I'm the CEO of SECA, Southeast Idaho Community Action Agency. Uh we serve the lower seven counties in southeast Idaho from from uh probably if anybody's familiar with Idaho, it's from about Blackfoot all the way down to the Utah border. So quite a big rural area along with a couple uh

0:40things. I've been a CEO here now for three years. Um and really enjoy uh serving our community. And Joe, one of the things that um made me smile when we first started talking is you haven't been in community action for the last 50 years, right? You you had a huge career as as a football coach, right? So, we'd love to hear about bit about your background, your journey, and how you ended up here. >> Yeah, definitely. I think it's I probably have one of the most unique backgrounds of community action. Um I spent uh yeah most of anybody I've met have been in community action have worked their way up and really done such

1:16amazing work and kind of worked their way up into the leadership roles where I kind of come from things from a different perspective. I spent my first 15 years of professional life as a college football coach. Uh try um coaching throughout the country. Uh coaching in about three or four different institutions throughout the United States in New York and Ohio and Idaho. And um there's two types of football coaches. Ones who are going to be fired and ones who have been fired. And so I know after a couple of those and moving my young family all over the place, I think it was a decision uh we were in Ohio to to get out of coaching,

1:54go back and get my MBA in leadership. So I went back after being out of school 15 or so years, went back, got my MBA in leadership, and then got into higher education fundraising and community development there in in a small school in in Ohio, Tiffen University. And so I was doing fundraising, community development for about oh seven, eight years. Um got a chance to come back here to Idaho as the associate athletic director in charge of development and fundraising for the athletic department. Um and then kind of things with higher ed and some stuff was going in my personal life and just kind of looking

2:30at the the next thing on what to do. And I had known a little bit about community action. And I had known some people who are in it here at SECA and they were looking for new leadership, somebody they had been here for the CEO for 20 plus years and really um done an amazing job. Um I just kind of looked at it going, hey, what are what are the things that I want to do and where I can utilize my leadership really lead people in the right way and also that community development and fundraising and and all of those things. And I took this job in November of 2022, so straight postcoavid. And uh it's just been such so rewarding

3:13because at the end of the day, this sounds really corny, but um after all the things that I've done and moving all over and and leadership and helping, I mean, I can look myself in the mirror. I can say people there's there's so many stresses that we all deal with with community action and we're told with all this red tape and all of these things, but I can honestly say I look myself in the mirror and go to bed at night knowing that at least I'm trying and it I'm I'm good. And it sounds a little bit corny as you get older, but at least I'm make trying my hardest to make a difference. And if we can, I tell our staff all the time, if

3:46we can, I know we we deal with all the things that we can't do, but one I mean, just changing one person, we do much more than that, but just changing one person's life and getting them out of that cycle of poverty and low income. I mean, it's well worth everything that we do. One one person just to change that cycle. So, I've really enjoyed my time. Obviously, we do a lot of things here. We do everything from energy assistance to rental housing to weatherization, meals on wheels. We have a self-help housing program where we're building putting first-time home buyers in in that. Uh like I said, weatherization.

4:21So, we we have all kinds of programs here. But I really enjoy it. >> And Joe, so you've talked about a bunch of the different programs. For people who really know the community in Idaho, what are the kind of challenges you're facing? What are the things you're trying to solve on a regular basis? Yeah, I think our biggest thing um is obviously we we serve the the seven lower counties and each county is just a little bit different. Um but what we did find and so there is you've got everything from those rural needs um where people are looking for um some of our rural outreach offices are doing food food pantries and things like that

4:56and really getting that community aspect in it. But I think here in in Idaho, what we've seen over the past couple of years is we saw a huge influx of people moving when after postcoid it was the we're going to get out of the cities and we're going to go to more rural and Idaho at that time the cost of living was really low and so people were moving in at a mass flux. Well, they were moving in um but jobs weren't coming with it. So I look at our the the community that we do and it's almost like we see the the upper class getting bigger and the lower class getting bigger and the middle class getting

5:33smaller. So, it's been great to have all of the the move in and the growth and we all want that. But with that, there's a population that needs to be served that don't understand um what are out there. And I think also what I think we're understanding and I postcoid and co money and all of that is there's a lot of people who need your services that don't know that they qualify for your services. And and that's the thing is, you know, we all work in community action and nonprofit and everybody says, you know, you say no low-inccome and poverty and everybody everybody looks at the panhandler on the

6:11street and says, "That's your clientele." And you're like, "We help them." Sure. But our sweet spot are working working mom and dads who are working teachers and the person checking you out at the grocery store and the teacher and the like these are the people that need the little bit of help. And we, you know, obviously everybody does the hand up and not hand out and we're those are the sweet spot. Those where we can make transformational differences and that's where our population sits. But I think is getting that word out to to ask for help, you know, to say what programs are there is, you know, hey, it's been a

6:46rough winter or rough summer with my heating bill. Like all I need is a month or two to help to get this on. And so, uh, those things, uh, has kind of been the big thing. And there's no other terminology to use the but low income and poverty. But I think some people think they're working their tail off every single day and they're paying their bills that they're not low income and poverty and they have we have services that are there for it. So, that's kind of the long answer. I really long-winded. Sorry, Rob. >> No, I love that, Joe. Um, I love your background around like being a a football coach and um, you know, how

7:24that's kind of influenced what you're doing now. You know, being part of a community action agency myself, like that was one of the biggest both rewards and challenges. Um, so, you know, one of the things I was kind of learning is, you know, is really directly learning from my staff, from like direct line staff. So, I'm interested like what what lessons or like what are the big ahas that you've had in your time um that you've learned directly from like your directline staff? >> Oh, 100%. I think that's kind of what the thing that the thing that drives me every single day other than obviously um

8:02the impact that we're having in the community is the impact that I can have on our staff and the leadership. That's why I do what I do. I love leadership. I love coaching. I love teaching. I love all of that. Um, a lot of our frontline staff and a lot of people that are working in community action um are such amazing people with such amazing hearts and work ethic and all of those things. Um, a lot of them unfortunately qualify for our programs and that's that's just the way it goes because we we can't afford a lot. But with that, I think a lot of those staff members sometimes get labeled as, oh, they don't have much

8:41back educational background. They don't have this and here they could, you know, they're doing this. My what really gets me excited is to watch them grow. I mean, to watch our our director of maintenance become a better leader and and divulge and and to watch him take steps in leadership and all of those things. Um, I have been rewarded from some of my frontline staff to watch them grow because unfortunately I think a lot of them were labeled as, oh, you know, you don't have the educational background, you don't have this, you can't do well. I've watched people move up this organization and get better. And

9:20that's my deal is I told every single one of them at the end of the day, if they're better for working for me in any way, even if they leave for a better I that is exactly what I want. I I want you to I want you to become better. But I think some of the some of the um not necessarily restrictions, but some of the think people they kind of put in a nutshell and say, "Hey, this is all you can do. this is well I believe in giving them more and teaching them how to read a budget, how to do this, how to talk to your staff, how do you hold people accountable, how do you motivate, how do you know when to put

9:56the gas on, when not to put the gas on, how can I get better and and all of those things because as the staff gets better, it's that's when the organization's better. when they're not leaning on when they're not leaning on the CEO and the executives to make all the decisions. But when you've got a staff and a a second tier staff and a frontline staff who know what they're doing and know that they they have your u mission and vision in mind and they they're they're doing it on their own. I love it. Like to me that's that's the greatest gift there is. And Joe, the question I've got for you, which is, you know, really specific

10:32given your, you know, coaching background, which I I I is also to Scott's point, I I find that fascinating, is um there's a lot of academic literature which talks about the value of great case management, right? So if someone's a great case manager alongside, you know, some money or benefits or help that you're giving them, people have transformatively better outcomes, right? in terms of um you know being able to stay in housing, being able to stay in the job, um providing for their family, paying spousal support, but also in that academic literature it says that you know average or you know below average

11:05case management has little or can have a negative effect as well, right? So my question to you is like how do you know what is a great case manager and what is you know someone that you need to improve and then how are you monitoring that and how are you trying to sort of improve that? Yeah. And and that's a hard because of uh obviously the some of the lack of the training because we don't ever know. Scott knows. I mean you you don't know what's going to walk in your door. I mean it could be anything from they need professional you know this is out of our realm to actually just somebody who is needing a little

11:37bit of case management and things like that. But I think Rob I think the biggest thing is to be a great listener. I mean truly listen to these people. I mean there I think um you know some of the some of the things that can happen is we our frontline and and those case management you know they think they know the answers before it's not just about giving these people answers. It's about listening to them. Listening to what their needs are truly is because when you listen you find out that their needs might not be exactly what they think they are. They're close but they're not. But I think listening to them where

12:13we're just not spewing out, okay, here's your problem. I know I've seen this before. You go here, here, here, here, here, you know, and then out the door. But truly listening to these people because um, you know, we it takes a lot to come in. It takes a lot to come in. It comes a lot to ask for help. You know, when I would living in New York and we had to get we had two young kids and I wasn't making an I was a low-end football coach, not making enough. We had to get Wick and we had to do that. And I remember, you know, my wife at the store was when they did the checks and crying and you know that like it's it's

12:46so hard to ask for help and we have to be sensitive. We have to listen and we have to take one case at a time because I think what we want to do is when we get those people is we want to put them in a category, you know, where each one's a little bit different. And I think that's it's it's it's a a challenge every day because we don't know what's going to walk in the door and we don't know the volume. And same deal with our mental health of our staff is making sure that they're in the right headsp space and they need they're doing the right things. So I think that's the biggest thing is really listening people

13:17and meeting them where they're at because what we do is, you know, I I think some of these terms in community, you know, cradle to grave and all of that. We don't know where they're at in the thing. And that's the best part about community action is we do so many we do so many things. A lot of nonprofits just deal with this one thing. Well, we're dealing everything from homeless shelter to first-time home buyers and everywhere in between and meeting them where they're at and finding out how can we help serve you. How can we and if we can't let us get you this some areas and where we need to go, but we need to listen them and do a

13:52better job of listening still continue it. But I think that's that's ongoing. And I think at the end of the day, we have to remember I've done a thing with our staff at least twice a year to remember your why. to remember why do we do what we do because and and I also think it's important to do some of those things to fuel your staff. So I put like our maintenance staff who does that like I had them do a parade for the for the for the city and they it was theirs maintenance you know because they need things to fill their tank too you know I want let them go to the deliver stockings with the meals on

14:28wheels drivers because they need it too you know the IT guy needs it who's you know everybody needs to understand the big picture of what we do and those those great things that we do that fill each other's tanks That's we have to keep that in mind that the staff needs that as well. >> Yeah, that I'm just going to call you coach. Um, so give me give me off the bench coach. Um, no, I like you know a lot of moments that you were just talking about I think are really important. Like your vulnerability around like hey we needed assistance. I know like for me and my and my family like when we needed

15:07assistance like that was >> hard to swallow but also >> needed in that moment, you know, when when my in-laws would deliver us diapers because we were living paycheck to paycheck, you know, like that that is powerful and it means something. Um and and allows you to >> kind of remember kind of why that's important. Um, one thing that, you know, I'm interested in. You were talking about, you know, there are, you ask your staff, um, what is their why? >> So, I'm going to reverse that. I'm going to ask you, Joe. What is your why? Like, why do you do this? >> Yeah, I I've thought about it a lot. I do that, but I think my why is

15:50>> um my why is my staff. And then to go back to circle back to what I said before, but like to watch um any of them make any stride or get through frustrated and get to this point where you don't think that they can do it and to work themselves through it. And like to watch the growth of the staff because of course I get to go out and do the the check presentations and I get to do the presentations and I get to do the ask and all that and that's all wonderful and it's it's great. Um, and the frontline stuff, I try to be as involved as I can and to see that. But I think what makes community action so

16:29special is all of it, meaning our staff into how they're transforming it into the community. And to watch I I just and it might change but as in three years to watch some of the growth of some of our staff who were told you know they could only do this or they couldn't do this and to watch them really really step up and and do some things that there there's no boundaries on them you know and I I also maybe it's from my coaching background but I fully believe to this day like you put people in position to succeed whatever they do like put them in position to succeed If my guy if he's the fastest guy, he can't catch at all,

17:10but he's the fastest guy in the whole thing and he couldn't if I threw him a ball, he couldn't catch it. I'm gonna put him in and tell him to run and take two people out so we can get somebody else like and thrive. Have everybody understand their value. Everybody has value. And when people and your staff lose the value, um that's when you you have problems. But that my why is to give them their value and watch them grow. >> That's great. Joe, let me just ask you a different question then. So the populations you're serving are pretty rural, right, from our conversations before. And >> tell me just what are the challenges

17:48with with that? You know, that people can't often come to the office. You might have an aging population. Um they may not be, you know, familiar with some technology. like how how do you go about thinking about that and you know serving them in different parts of um your community? >> Yeah, it's it's it's a really challenge. That's that's probably the biggest challenge because we're we're dealing with you know our biggest area Pocutello's rural area is about 90 to 100,000 but all the other is is remote and there are a lot of fears out there. you know, we're dealing with some rural Idaho farmers who, you know,

18:25um don't know what they need and how they hey, how they can do it. So, what we try to do is get the community involvement in themselves and get the community a friendly face for them. Um some some volunteer work and things like that. But I think letting them know um it it's I'm not going to lie, it's the hardest challenge is you've got some people like you said within and we know that the numbers the aging community is you know in the next couple years um over 65% of the people will be 65 and older and the loneliness and we deal with all of that and and getting them to help put the fears away because there

19:02are some new things there are things like you know we talked about obviously with what you guys do with the AI There are there's there's tons of there's tons of fear and there's tons of this and there's tons of I get all of that and there are that's true for all of us that lie. That's true. But also, how can we take a tool like AI and use it as an asset? How can we use it as something that's valuable? How can we utilize it for something good? Because then when we speak to it because we have some background behind it, we're speaking not from this myth and legend that we see online or we see in TV. we I've been

19:37part of this. I see how it can help. I see where the challenges are, but I think it would be really it's really really hard, but continuing to educate our our participants um that it's a good thing that it's a good thing because it it allows us to serve them and any way we can serve them. And like I said, we serve seven counties and I think it's over almost 10,000 square miles. Uh and I have a staff of 35. So we anything we can do to help alleviate that and you know we are going to get you out of your comfort zone and you might have to you know get on your phone you know teach you some things but it's it's an ongoing

20:20challenge because um just letting them know that they're we understand their their fear on trying new things but there's also an asset to it. >> Yeah. I I think one of the biggest things in leadership is is just change management. So like helping people through change. So it's like you know 10% are actually making the change and then 90% is managing the expectation around change. Um so for you what have you learned about change management or what have you found to be really successful in helping navigate those changes? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the biggest thing like it's in leadership change management. It's huge.

21:00it let's see my first um six months I had a new CFO a new fiscal system and a new HR system and people were not but I think what has to happen I think and I say this in a in a nice way but it's because community action um also was deal there's a lot of people who have been here for 20 and 30 years and really have done that work and actually built the foundation of community and that's why we are who where we are. So there's what they were doing nothing was wrong and where there like there just but there's also a time to change. There's also a time to say that got us to this point but now we have to do things a little

21:43bit different. That doesn't mean what we were doing before was wrong. It's just time that we we we take that next step. So I think change management is one of the biggest things. I think being as upfront and as honest and letting your staff and your people know exactly what is going to happen and say, "I understand it's not going to be easy for for some of you and this is exactly what's going to happen. We're getting a new fiscal system. I know we've been doing it this way. You guys have been doing purchase requests and you've been doing your time sheets and you've been doing all of this for 20some years.

22:20we have to step up and here's the timeline. This is when it's going to happen and at the end of the day I I understand all your concerns, but we are moving forward. But it's it's also you've got to be upfront and honest with them and and and let them know where it is and understand that. The other part is I think with with change management to go back though is there's too much focused on oh what we were doing was wrong. like no, no, no, no, no, no. But it's kind of outdated and it just needs to be we have to make some changes to go. And that's where the guilt comes in is like, oh, we've been doing it, but

22:57now it's not good enough. No, you guys built this thing. It's it's fabulous, but if we want to continue to grow as a as an organization, we have to do things differently. >> And Joe, question for you, bit more specific about one of your programs. So, Lie Hap is Yeah. >> Is it is it the biggest one of your programs? Yeah, probably the most volume. Yeah, >> the most volume. Okay, so so talk me through it. So like what are the biggest challenges? Let's say, you know, October 1st hits. >> Yeah. >> What's going through your head? What's going to go wrong? What's going to go right? You know, what's going to happen?

23:28>> Is the volume of calls. We we have the ones that we it's the volume of of instant you know a lot of the other programs that are busy and all of that stuff can monitor with lie being those that special season that October to to March and those um you have plenty of participants who have um have received it year by year. So come October 1st it is all hands on deck and for us you know we have to hire three to four temps that we have in. So, it's getting them trained, getting them ready to go. You know, you're having to teach a whole new group every single year on the systems and your protocols and how we need to do

24:08it um to get ready for that. But it's it goes from I think the biggest challenge, Rob, is is going from zero to 100% in a program like Lie Hap. I mean, August or September 15th, you're not your phone can't ring. You know, it's not ringing at all. Then all of a sudden October 1st it's you know and then the frustration of the participants. That's you know one of the things that we're looking at a a company like you guys to help us because we're we're all of a sudden we our our messages get backed up. Phone's ringing off the hook. They hey all I want to do is talk to somebody. I've been trying five times. You guys never answer your

24:50phone. Blah blah blah. So utilizing a resource like that you and your company provides is like I said getting them in those buckets. Hey, you know how do we want to do this? The phone call comes in. Do we want to make sure just run through a preop so we know whether to get get them pre-authorization? Whether we know that there's somebody we need to follow up with whether we do a meetings whether we do but that will at least alleviate that first round of phone calls. But I think going from there's no warm-up with lie heap, you know, it's not like, oh, okay, we're going to get five calls today and 10 tomorrow and 20.

25:24It's it almost accelerates right away and then it slows down as as you go. But I think you have to look at yourself. How can we best serve our participants and our community? And if we're not to the phone and we just we we don't know what those numbers look like. Meaning, you know, we did end up doing I think about 10,000 applications with crisis and everything throughout the year of 2024 2025. So, how can we best serve those people, but it's it gets in a hurry and and that's I think the biggest thing with with LIE HEAP is is understanding that and obviously the documentation and all the things that are needed with

26:05that. our front line needs to be spending time, but utilizing an asset like your guys' company will allow us to get them in the right buckets. That's how I kind of foresee it is is if we could utilize something like that and there are opportunities out there to better yourself or to make things a little bit better for your staff because I know Scott, your lie he staff, I'm sure the first through October, they look at you like they just I they're like we're buried. we they don't know what to do or you know and it's been like that all three years I've been here I I it's no warm-up and they're buried.

26:41So if there are assets or things to help my staff I I definitely want to look into it. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I know our time's coming up um but just want to kind of ask you maybe one last question um if that that's fine with you. Um, one of the things that I learned as a leader is like especially with change management is like at times I have to like ease people into change. Um, like you were mentioning earlier. So, one one phrase that I use actually is, you know, keep an open mind and what I'm what I'm communicating to my staff in that is, hey, you're going to want to say no right now. Um, but I need you to just

27:21like >> take a step back and like think through this. And so I'm interested uh from your perspective, Joe, what's a time that you had to keep an open mind where you wanted to say no right away, but you're like, "Okay, actually now that I reflect back, that was actually a really good idea." >> Yeah, very much so. And I think I think that's the thing is is is you have to be that listening goes both ways. I think great leaders are great listeners, too. Great leaders are great listeners. So you listen to their staff. I also tell my people, I always tell my staff too, don't tell me how we can't do something,

27:55tell me how we can. So, I want to hear your ideas. So, if you're, hey, we got this new with this change and we can't do this anymore. I understand it. And then that's the other misillusion is when you have change, everybody thinks it's going to be the old easy button. You know, everything's going to run smooth and it's going to be great. And this new blank is going to solve all of our problem. I'm telling you right now, no one system, no one protocol, no one thing. We all there's quirks, there's issues, there's things. So, we have to be able to fix those those things together. And like I tell them, I'm not

28:31smart enough to figure it out. You guys are there. So, tell me how how can we help it? And I want to know, you know, but also we're in a day and age where we can do different things. We don't have to do it the same way we've been doing it. I know like co proved that we could all work from home or you could do this or you could do teleol or you go like that's the other part is getting out of the mind frame and go a lot of us we're a private private cap so guess what as long as the board says that we can do it let's think out of the box let's do a flex schedule let's do this how can we do this let's don't be afraid

29:07of coming off the wall and I want to be there to listen to you know I'm come at me I want to find better and new different ways to do things But I think you know that that thing of don't tell me how we can't shoot tell I want to know your ideas on how we can do it and then between the two of us we can work out some of it's cost you know we can't do that because it costs a little bit but how can we model it to to go from there so those are the kind of the things I think as a leader you need to keep an open mind but I think sometimes we get caught in we have to run things a certain way and I don't think we do like

29:41I we don't who says that I have to we have to do this and this and is it's about the best way to serve our community period. That you know what makes us is that we're rising to the needs of our community. It doesn't say that we have to do it this exact way. I mean we have all of the guidelines and the monitors and the we have all of those things that tell us what we need to how we need to do it, but some of the operational stuff we can think out of the box. >> No, we agree Jay. We agree obviously and um me and Scott are excited to get out to see you in Idaho at some point soon. Awesome. Nice to let you guys out here.

30:16It'd be fun. >> Yeah. No, we >> altering good and bad. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Um but listen, man, thanks so much for jumping on. We really appreciate you and >> I appreciate you guys and I appreciate you guys putting together something that can can serve uh serve our communities because I think you guys are you have a product that can really um help organizations like oursel alleviate some of the stresses that our front line have. So I appreciate it.